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Post by nathan on Aug 24, 2015 7:50:11 GMT
Here is my current Loki build:
1 Loki (MC)
4 Mantis 4 Nick Fury 3 Doctor Octopus 4 Sabertooth 3 Beast 1 Wolverine 1 Dr. Strange 1 Luke Cage 1 Magneto 1 Professor X 2 Dormammu 1 Hulk 2 Thanos
4 Trickster God 4 Extinguish 4 Savage Surprise 4 Metal and Fire
4 The Vault 3 Avengers Mansion 4 Training Ground 2 Academy 2 Fortress 1 Laboratory
I was wondering if anyone had come up with any more "optimized" builds as this is just a first try for me.
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Post by spellforgegames on Aug 24, 2015 15:24:02 GMT
Looks like the list I posted on Reddit a few days ago I want to test a couple of changes.. I want to try out Iceman again (probably in place of Doc Oc), and there probably needs to be another Dr Strange as well (in place of the second Dormammu.)
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Post by nathan on Aug 24, 2015 21:27:30 GMT
I was wondering where my friend had found the list, I looked all over for one but couldn't find any.
While I do like Doc Oc for the Genius and Grab I could see Iceman being good as well.
I'm definitely on board with cutting a Dormammu for a second Dr. Strange as EVERY game I lost was to a Sabertooth I couldn't overpower quickly enough.
Really wish we could run Even the Odds, that card is busted.
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Post by spellforgegames on Aug 24, 2015 22:29:03 GMT
Haha, ya, I haven't seen ANYONE talk about him so I wanted to post what I have been testing. I am probably suffering from my meta and that vacuum, so discussion is good. I have tested quite a few things but I feel like the core is pretty solid. A couple things I want to test more: Iceman - He is pretty good late game and can screen for Loki in the early game if necessary. It gives you a turn against other control builds late game and a little bit of reprieve in the early game against very aggressive decks. Gambit - Something to toy with.. the ability to remove opposing cards like Wolverine/Sabertooth (with gambit/extinguish) is worth probing I think... Honestly, it usually isn't people bombing you out when you lose, it is a strong midgame with cards like Sabertooth/Wolverine that give you trouble.. You end up burning all of your tricks to maneuver around those but they are hard to get rid of. Thor - 6/5 with 2hp is ok and the ability to shrink guys (or just kill some guys outright) may be ok.. I still just think Dormammu is better, but maybe not Storm - Storm may also be viable, but only having 1hp scares me. The other 4 drops in the deck are SUPER strong because of savage surprise, so the competition is stiff. Emma Frost - Probably worth testing more since I haven't much. Even if you only cycle 3 or 4 cards, it is probably pretty strong. We can't really take advantage of the fact that she is a strong ranged fighter since we don't have a lot of team attack action in that faction here. Cosmo - I have tested this guy a little bit and he is really good when he is good, but just kind of meh when he is bad. Properly protected he can wreak a lot of havoc on certain characters or relevant supporting guys if necessary, the problem is that he is fragile and just dies to a lot of stuff. Realistically we wont be playing him until turn 4 or 5, so if we can build a nice screen by then it may be worth it just to turn off problem guys. I really, really like Dormammu but I will probably make the cut for the Dr Strange since more and more people are running things that generate counters. My initial build was a guardians combo that ran even the odds, but it just offered much less than the avengers package overall. I would love to run think again here but i'm really scared about splashing with only a few out of faction guys. I think the only thing you could cut realistically is trickster god, but that card is pretty cool. The ability to force early game stuns on defense and level up Loki is nice, but I don't know if its good enough.
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Post by keeblerpowell on Aug 25, 2015 16:20:16 GMT
-I'am dumb.... never mind this... lol
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2015 10:11:32 GMT
So I had initially cut the second Dormammu for a second Dr. Strange, but with only two locations to activate Professor X I found myself never using him and ended up cutting him which allows me to play two Dr. Strange AND two Dormammu.
I haven't tested any of the other cards that have been suggested so far but I am especially interested in two cards:
Emma Frost - Seems especially interesting due to Loki's ability to recur plot twists that would be discarded.
Cosmo - If anyone can protect Cosmo from being killed immediately I think it's Loki, although Namor could put a wrench in that I still think Cosmo may be worth a slot as it fits in most every deck.
I will be playing Loki a lot more over the coming days and will post any changes or discoveries.
Here's the list I am on right now:
1 Loki (MC)
4 Mantis 4 Nick Fury 3 Doctor Octopus 4 Sabertooth 3 Beast 1 Wolverine 2 Dr. Strange 1 Emma Frost 1 Magneto 2 Dormammu 1 Hulk 2 Thanos
4 Trickster God 4 Extinguish 4 Savage Surprise 4 Metal and Fire
4 The Vault 3 Avengers Mansion 4 Training Ground 2 Academy 2 Fortress 1 Laboratory
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Post by jmicscar on Sept 2, 2015 15:07:35 GMT
Hello! I've been testing a Loki deck for some time, as both his powers really interest me. For awhile I played a deck similar to yours except I played Avengers to use Avengers plot twists. Currently I am testing a deck that focuses using Loki and -1/-1 counters I posted it ] here Your deck is very similar to the one i used to run, and I can tell you I miss the perks of that deck. Here are a few of those perks below, and possibly something you may be able to work with. Plot Twists: Earth's Mightiest Heroes & Think Again ---> Avengers plot twists in my opinion are pretty darn strong. You have a buff that is usable by attackers or defenders for +2/+2 and arguably one of the best defensive cards in the game. Support Characters: Ronan - was in the original version of my deck. Combos well with Loki Level 2 Power... Also helps you deal with low level cards that are annoying to deal with. Doctor Octopus - Card draw is the problem I am currently having in my new Loki deck based on -1/-1 counters. I am honestly considering putting Doc back in just because of this. Less Copies more Versatility - I personally did not play 4 of each Plot Twist with Loki (except Earth's Mightiest Heroes & Think Again) I stick to 2 or 3 copies of most of the other plot twists, but it allows me to play almost every plot twist in the game. Loki is very versatile and i think that is what makes him powerful. This is another problem with the counter deck i am having because there is slim pickings without adding in Avengers (i use Open Fire in my current X-men deck too or else I would add that) Again these are all my opinions... but with your current build it may be pretty cool to start to direct your attention toward Avengers their plot twists are very strong... especially with someone who can constantly reuse them you can also read the Loki Primer written by John Tatta on the home page to give you an idea of how versatile Loki and the avengers can be; vsheadquarters.com/strategy/loki-primer-this-is-not-a-trick
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Post by spellforgegames on Sept 2, 2015 16:21:15 GMT
Nathan: I have changed the list around a little bit after playing another 30 games or so, lol. 4 Mantis 4 Nick Fury 3 Sabertooth 4 Beast 2 Dr. Strange 2 Dormammu 4 Drax 2 Thanos 2 Adam Warlock 4 Even the Odds 4 Extinguish 4 Savage Surprise 4 Metal and Fire 4 The Vault 2 Avengers Mansion 4 Training Ground 3 Academy 2 Fortress 2 Laboratory Basically I cut the Prof X.. your point is good, I never wanted to play him.. He is good in an ideal situation, but usually you are stealing their biggest guy to knock out someone smaller, and it doesn't really answer their big hitter. I much prefer Dormammu because it gives you a real body, which is nice. I cut basically all the 5 drops since 5 is a really weird number on the curve.. I am normally never playing 5s on turn 4 or 5. I also cut Doc Oc because he was the weakest body in the deck IMO... The card draw is awesome but he NEVER lives a round unless you protect him. I ended up putting in 4x Drax and 2x Adam Warlock mostly to have Guardians characters for Even the Odds. The more I play with Drax the more I like him though, even though he is still primarily here to turn on Guardians twists I have thought about fitting in Cosmo here, im just not sure where. You can usually hold him until later when you need to turn off something.. With the list right now it would probably be cutting 2x Dr Strange for 2x Cosmo.. the addition of Even the Odds gives a lot of redundancy with Dr. Strange. I like his ability and the fact that it can just KO certain MCs, but maybe Cosmo is better in that slot with the addition of Even the Odds. Testing will tell, I guess jmicscar: Thanks for contributing to the Loki discussion I saw your list but I will be honest, I wasn't a big fan. I understand the theme of counters, which is cool, but relatively low impact. I tested Avengers originally but the problem is with those two again is pretty low impact overall. Think Again is fine, but it really just buys you a turn at most.. Against some decks it is devastating (Gamora/Deadpool/Wolverine, etc), but those decks run tools to prevent Think Again and Even the Odds (primarily, Ronan.) Dc. Oc is good, but beast is just 100% better. It sucks because they both die pretty easily I think Loki just needs consistency to out tempo your opponent. With the ramp package, you can out threat your opponent pretty quickly. The advantage here over the other control strategies is that you just have more good plot twists to play, period. Playing through 4 savage surprised ferocious guys is bad enough, but having to worry about attacking into Loki and what he has available at the time has a lot of impact on your opponents plays. Savage Surprise on Loki in the early turns just to stun a guy back is honestly a very solid play, considering your early game is pretty weak and it levels you up
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Post by rchaudh2 on Sept 2, 2015 17:46:05 GMT
I don't really mind your character choices seeing as you want to play a ramp/Guardians style of the deck but I will say a few things. I never found Dormammu to be exciting. His two location super power seems pretty unreliable and you would be better off replacing the Laboratories with more plot twists/characters. The reason Doc Oc doesn't stay around is because you aren't running Find Cover. I believe Find Cover is a necessity in some number. That leads to my next point: the one thing I think you're looking at completely wrong is your plot twists. Loki thrives on versatility and keeping your opponent guessing and for this reason you should not be running most plot twists at 4 (you can get a 4th copy using Loki's super power). Extinguish should be at 1 or 2. It will be a dead draw way too often & you also can't reuse it using Loki's effect.
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Post by spellforgegames on Sept 2, 2015 18:26:33 GMT
You definitely make some good points.. Dormammu is something I personally like but probably needs more field testing. Right now, he is really good, but that could just be my meta. The fact that he is a 6/7 flyer with 2 hp is good by itself, and his ability is probably one of the strongest tempo swings in the game. The only thing I don't like about him is that he is usually only animating a 4-5 cost guy since you are ramping ahead of everyone else. Still though, a free Sabertooth/Abomination/Wolverine or whatever is really, really good for you. I think running find cover just to keep a mediocre guy alive is pretty lackluster, but that's just my opinion. I am already on the fence about doc oc as it is since his stats are pretty poor, and having to run some kind of protection for a guy I already don't want is pretty meh. Onto plot twist versatility: I do agree somewhat. You could test running most of the twists at 3 to fit in another twist all together, I just don't know what that mix is yet. I have played extinguish in every game I have ever drawn it in (I would say at least 40), but I can see the argument about it being "necessary". The fact that you can't flash it back is also lame, but honestly, Loki's flashback ability doesn't see much play anyway since it is specific to his combat. I use it a couple times each game, but really its just icing on the cake. I don't think trimming Metal and Fire or Even the Odds is good though, since those cards are soooo good. I could see the argument for cutting 2 extinguish for 2 find cover just to give a little extra coverage though
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Post by spellforgegames on Sept 3, 2015 17:52:32 GMT
More testing updates. The curve is really weird in the new build.. if you ramp out, you are basically missing a drop. I cut two Extinguish for two Emma Frost and I have been liking it quite a bit. I turns those dead draws later on (like drawing multiple Mantis/Nick Fury/whatever) into gas. I am still a super big fan of Dormammu in this list.. he is so good most of the time, and even when you don't hit something big, it is still basically a free drop. Activating Dorm twice is really rude Drax is kind of meh right now.. I think I need to test more to even out the curve, but maybe it is correct right now. Missing drops on an open board "feels" wrong, but being able to slam some stuff down on 5, kill one of their guys, and then reanimate it and wreck their board is pretty nice. Drax is mostly there to make sure we can cast Even the Odds which unfortunately seems like a mandatory card now. 1 Drax could be a Quasar, but that is really only good against Thanos, and the fact that he only has 1hp is scary. The answer may be cutting a Dr. Strange for some other guy... maybe Juggernaut or Abomination.. Juggernaut can be pretty solid situationally and normally has to be answered, and while Abomination is very lackluster, he can force some team attacks and can be pretty devastating with Savage Surprise.
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Post by grierworld on Sept 3, 2015 18:24:35 GMT
The main problem I see with the deck is that late game you will have plot twist that you can't use. Stun Drax and you won't be able to use "Even the odds," Stun Loki, you won't be able to use "metal and fire"
Nothing is worse than having to play mantis late game so you can shrink your opponents Thanos. I personally think you need to focus more on the guardians and villain characters so you can always use your plot twist and make Loki insane.
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Post by spellforgegames on Sept 3, 2015 19:43:52 GMT
Grierworld: Loki's flashback ability is not really that good, to be honest. The only reason he is even remotely playable is his high starting health and the ability to strip cards in level 2. Plot twists are already relatively low impact (outside of Think Again and Even the Odds), and it is very easy to play around his flashback.
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Post by grierworld on Sept 4, 2015 0:35:40 GMT
If you aren't playing Loki for his plot twist, then why play him? Thanos/ Green Goblin are better at stripping your opponents hand
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Post by nathan on Sept 9, 2015 8:43:40 GMT
I'd like to disagree with grierworld on something... Green Gobin MC isn't better at anything than anyone.
I do think flashing back plot twists is a reason to play Loki. Yes you can play around plot twists that are literally on-board, but it's actually more difficult than you think to play around on-board plots and in-hand plots at the same time. Often times I find opponents just skipping combat having literally no way to play around a plot twist that they know I can flash back while knowing that I also have plots in hand as well.
The whole "inability to play plot twists when characters are stunned" argument is only semi-valid. Yes sometimes they will stun a non-villains character turning off your non-villains plot twist, these things happen. I seriously doubt it's something to consider that heavily as it's a pretty natural part of the game and you want some number of non-villains plot twists because their upside is high enough that you should be playing them, whatever faction they may be aligned with.
With all that being said I've been playing a more plot twist heavy build and will be posting a list soon, most likely tomorrow.
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